Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/07/2000 09:09 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 56                                                                                                   
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the                                                                               
State of Alaska prohibiting certain initiatives                                                                                 
relating to wildlife.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the first hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                          
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MORGAN, sponsor of the bill, noted the                                                                      
bill has wide bipartisan support.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan talked about the ballot initiative                                                                        
process in Alaska and the wildlife-related initiatives                                                                          
placed on the ballot in 1996 and 1998.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan stressed that the claims made in                                                                          
support of the same-day airborne wolf hunting initiative                                                                        
that was adopted in 1986 were untrue. He asserted that                                                                          
these claims dealt with people's emotions and passions in                                                                       
the use of video footage of wolves being killed by an                                                                           
employee of the Department of Fish and Game. He stated that                                                                     
in the footage showing a wolf being shot from a helicopter,                                                                     
the wolf was actually being tranquilized and not killed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan told of the efforts required to spot                                                                      
wolves from an aircraft, find a place to land the aircraft                                                                      
and then run over 100 yards to the place were the wolf was                                                                      
last seen before a shot can be taken. He remarked on the                                                                        
difficulty of running in the snow and then stopping to aim                                                                      
and shoot. He asserted that fair chase is given to the                                                                          
wolves in this case.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan stated that similar ballot initiative                                                                     
legislation has been adopted in Minnesota, and was pending                                                                      
in Arizona, Idaho and North Dakota.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan referred to the animal rights groups                                                                      
efforts to eliminate funding from Ameri-Gas for Iditarod                                                                        
musher, Randy Brooks. Representative Morgan admonished that                                                                     
the groups never researched the positive works of Mr.                                                                           
Brooks, which include the receipt of a humanitarian award                                                                       
in 1998.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan addressed the argument that this                                                                          
resolution is taking away the people's right to vote on                                                                         
important matters. He asserted that by placing this                                                                             
constitutional amendment on the ballot, all Alaskan's are                                                                       
given the chance to decide how wildlife should be managed.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan countered the assertion that only 20                                                                      
percent of Alaskans hunt and/or trap, saying that the                                                                           
constitution is intended to protect the freedom of the                                                                          
minority.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan relayed that tourists come to Alaska                                                                      
to see the Native people and how they live, as well as to                                                                       
see wildlife. He said it is important for visitors to see                                                                       
Alaskan Natives thriving culturally, which includes a                                                                           
dependence on wildlife.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan listed some of those who have written                                                                     
letters in support of the resolution. [Copy of list and                                                                         
letters on file.] One of these organizations is the Alaska                                                                      
Wildlife Society, which he remarked is made up of 300                                                                           
professional biologists working for the Department of Fish                                                                      
and Game or the federal government.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips requested copies of the Utah and Minnesota                                                                     
constitutional amendments regarding wildlife.                                                                                   
Representative Morgan supplied the Utah constitutional                                                                          
amendment language. [Copy on file.]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the                                                                                 
Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game, stated that the                                                                      
department could not support the proposal because it fails                                                                      
to recognize that there is more to the management of the                                                                        
public's wildlife resources than the application of science                                                                     
and technical expertise. He stressed that wildlife                                                                              
management must also consider and respond to the values                                                                         
held by the public about how they want their wildlife                                                                           
managed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce pointed out that there are usually many options                                                                       
for wildlife management that are all biologically                                                                               
sustainable and therefore consistent with the sustained                                                                         
yield principal. He stated that the principle of achieving                                                                      
the maximum human harvest of big game as always the highest                                                                     
and best use of big game is not a scientific matter, but a                                                                      
public policy matter. Like many public policy issues, he                                                                        
asserted, there are different views. He said the initiative                                                                     
process is the most direct way the public sorts out its                                                                         
views on public policy and taking the process away is not                                                                       
something the department can support.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce continued saying wildlife management does involve                                                                     
scientific and special expertise, but so does the                                                                               
administration of many other public functions, such as                                                                          
education, public health and transportation planning. It                                                                        
appeared to him and the department, to be no reason to                                                                          
separate wildlife management as a subject too complex for                                                                       
the public to make policy decisions through the initiative                                                                      
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce added that it is worth remembering that a law                                                                         
enacted can be amended by the legislature immediately if                                                                        
there is some error, or if it brings about an unanticipated                                                                     
consequence that is injurious to the public or the wildlife                                                                     
resource. After only two years, he continued, the                                                                               
legislature may repeal the initiative entirely if the                                                                           
legislature believes it is an inappropriate policy for the                                                                      
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce concluded that given these checks and balances to                                                                     
the initiative process, there is little risk that a poor                                                                        
initiative would cause any lasting harm to Alaska's                                                                             
wildlife. On the other hand, he remarked that to remove                                                                         
wildlife management issues from the reach of the initiative                                                                     
process would lead to more conflict rather than less.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JAMES BERLIN JR, Resource Specialist, ABCP, Inc., testified                                                                     
via teleconference from Bethel on behalf of 56 villages and                                                                     
one-quarter of Alaska's tribes. He relayed the                                                                                  
corporation's support of the resolution. He spoke to the                                                                        
fine balance required to manage resources, saying a ballot                                                                      
initiate process could not achieve this. He told of his                                                                         
forefathers' management of wildlife that was dictated by                                                                        
the proper leaders and users of the resources.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Tape: SFC - 00 #79, Side B    9:56 AM                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Berlin, Jr. continued stressing that the public input                                                                       
in wildlife management is already considered through the                                                                        
Board of Game process.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BEN HOPSON JR., Chair, Coalition to the Alaskan Way of                                                                          
Life, testified via teleconference from Barrow in support                                                                       
of the resolution. He described the organization as a                                                                           
diverse coalition of many Native organizations, sportsmen,                                                                      
trappers and hunters in both rural and urban Alaska. He                                                                         
stressed that Outside interests are managing the state's                                                                        
renewable resources through their money and by using                                                                            
emotional influences. He contended that these animal rights                                                                     
groups only want to see total elimination of hunting and                                                                        
trapping in the United States, including Alaska.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
RON ARNO, Guide, testified via teleconference from Mat-Su                                                                       
that it is not in the best interest of Alaskans to use the                                                                      
initiative process for fish and wildlife matters. He spoke                                                                      
of the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's, animal rights                                                                       
and racism.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, Vice-President, Alaska Outdoor Council,                                                                            
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in strong                                                                           
support of HJR 56. He asserted that contrary to popular                                                                         
press reports, this resolution is not a matter of ignoring                                                                      
the public's interest, but instead is responding to the                                                                         
public's interest.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TINKER, Chair, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory                                                                            
Committee testified via teleconference from Fairbanks about                                                                     
the importance of this resolution to the advisory                                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARY BISHOP testified via teleconference from Fairbanks                                                                         
suggesting that while the adage "don't watch sausage or                                                                         
legislation being made" was wise, watching laws made by 30-                                                                     
second sound bites was more painful.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOE MATTIE testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in                                                                       
favor of the resolution saying that the legislature and the                                                                     
Board of Game is the best voice for Alaskans.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GREG MACHACEK, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                                       
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks to say that the                                                                     
advisory committee is the best process for managing fish                                                                        
and game. He suggested that the only parties who benefited                                                                      
from ballot box biology were those who got paid for their                                                                       
efforts in getting the initiative passed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PETE BUIST, President, Alaskan Trappers Association,                                                                            
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks that he did not                                                                     
think it was fair that Alaskans had to spend their money                                                                        
fighting heavily funded groups.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KNEELAND TAYLOR, Chair, Alaskan's Against Snaring Wolves,                                                                       
testified via teleconference from Anchorage in opposition                                                                       
to the resolution. He argued that Alaskans should put their                                                                     
trust in democracy. He asserted that if this resolution                                                                         
passes, it would be a "slap in the face" to the large                                                                           
number of Alaskans who voted for the two previous                                                                               
initiatives from 1996 and 1998. He noted that there was a                                                                       
third ballot initiative relating to wildlife, which was on                                                                      
the ballot in 1994 and pertained to sport fishing. He noted                                                                     
that HJR 56 does not apply to fish and commented the                                                                            
omission is a political move. He addressed the assertion                                                                        
that voters are not smart enough to voice their opinions on                                                                     
wildlife matters. He compared the amount of money spent by                                                                      
interest groups on both sides of the wildlife management                                                                        
issue, saying that the conservation groups are vastly                                                                           
outspent by the sportsmen's groups. He suggested the                                                                            
election to decide this initiative will be funded on both                                                                       
sides from sources outside the state.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly stated that he did not approve of Outside                                                                      
interests deciding Alaskan's way of life.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN SCHRADER, Conservation Advocate, Alaska Conservation                                                                      
Voters, testified in Juneau talked about the importance of                                                                      
the ballot initiative process. She stated that her                                                                              
organization opposes the resolution. She suggested that if                                                                      
the concern is with the influence of Outside factors, why                                                                       
the legislature is proposing to limit Alaskan's rights. She                                                                     
asserted passing this resolution would not solve the                                                                            
problem of Outside money and suggested campaign finance                                                                         
reform was a better option.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green mentioned the downside of this particular                                                                         
type of initiative. She wanted to know if this resolution                                                                       
poses a limitation on limited entry.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman answered there is no limited entry for the                                                                        
taking of wildlife.  He noted that Mr. Taylor brought up a                                                                      
good point worth considering regarding managing of fish at                                                                      
the ballot box, which he thought, was not good.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green noted there was no constitutionally valid                                                                         
method restricting Outside interests' spending money and                                                                        
influencing Alaskan elections.  She stated that a court                                                                         
decision issued the previous year made it even broader.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson had the same understanding.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked if, constitutionally, the state                                                                          
could limit the amount of spending on constitutional                                                                            
amendment initiatives.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson didn't think so.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Several members commented it was a matter of free speech                                                                        
and the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Senator                                                                       
Donley cited court decisions affirming this.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips spoke to the constitutional amendment                                                                          
proposed in the State of Utah, saying its provision                                                                             
requires that two-thirds of voters must vote in favor to                                                                        
any constitutional amendment regarding wildlife.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips was curious to know how much Outside funds                                                                     
was spent of the wildlife-related ballot initiatives in the                                                                     
1996 and 1998 elections.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly supported the initiative and wanted to                                                                         
counter some points brought up in testimony. He noted that                                                                      
in many states, voters do not have the right to amend their                                                                     
constitutions in any way. He suggested that on wildlife                                                                         
issues, the initiative process can be set aside because the                                                                     
animal rights and environmental extremists want to change                                                                       
Alaskan's way of life and turn Alaska into a big park.                                                                          
Results at stake at the ballot box. Secondly, he stated                                                                         
that the results of a mistake made at the ballot box are                                                                        
more dramatic with wildlife.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly did not claim whether people knew what                                                                         
they were voting on or not in the 1996 election. However,                                                                       
he thought they did not understand the consequences on                                                                          
Rural Alaska, and in fact he didn't fully understand them                                                                       
either. He said this inability to understand the                                                                                
implications is the reason for the fish and game advisory                                                                       
committees and the Board of Game.  He attested that it                                                                          
would take ten years to bring the moose population near                                                                         
McGrath back to minimum standards.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly contended that the legislature could not                                                                       
turn these types of issues over to Outside interests who                                                                        
are very well financed. He asserted these groups use                                                                            
Alaska's issues to raise money. He stated that he saw no                                                                        
other reason for environmental and animal rights groups                                                                         
than to raise money to provide income for executive                                                                             
directors and to influence elections.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly talked about college students from Oregon                                                                      
working to get signatures for the 1996 initiative. He                                                                           
stated that these "20-year old students with stars in their                                                                     
eyes" had no idea about the issue and knew nothing about                                                                        
Alaskans' way of life. He claimed they said things about                                                                        
the initiative that were not true.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly stressed, "the fact remains, Outside                                                                           
groups are coming for this state and they've found a chink                                                                      
in our armor."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly next asserted that wildlife viewing is a                                                                       
ruse and the arguments in favor are irrelevant.  He stated                                                                      
that he has been in Alaska all his life and has seen very                                                                       
few wolves. He argued against the claim that this                                                                               
resolution would result in a loss of tourism due to too few                                                                     
wolves, saying it would be the exact opposite because there                                                                     
will be more moose, which are the animals more likely to be                                                                     
seen.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green found it interesting that the Committee is                                                                        
told in the testimony against this resolution that                                                                              
constitutional amendments can be changed after the two-year                                                                     
period.  She stressed that when the legislature actually                                                                        
attempts to make those changes it is accused of acting                                                                          
against the people's will.  She surmised that this                                                                              
resolution was the answer to the dilemma.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly offered a motion to move from Committee,                                                                       
HJR 56 with accompanying $1,500 fiscal note from the                                                                            
Division of Elections. Senator Phillips objected.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
A roll call was taken on the motion.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Senator Leman, Senator Wilken, Senator P. Kelly,                                                                      
Senator Green, Senator Donley, Co-Chair Parnell and Co-                                                                         
Chair Torgerson                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
OPPOSED: Senator Phillips                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ABSENT: Senator Adams                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The motion PASSED (7-1-1)                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The resolution was MOVED FROM COMMITTEE.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 10:36 AM / 10:36 AM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                

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